Comments on The Jiu-Jitsu Fighter: The Wrestler's Transition to Jiu-Jitsu

I am a former wrestler who is in his second week o...

2011-12-20T11:30:23.818-06:00

I am a former wrestler who is in his second week of BJJ. My school trains Nogi Mondays, Gi Wednesdays, and Judo on fridays.

From my perspective I really relate to those who posted about strength. Also I felt bad the times I did get to the head so far during live rolling sessions.

It has been a battle loosening my muscles like others have posted.
A big thing I have learned is how much more vulnerable your head is with BJJ than in wrestling. Some of my opponents have commented that wrestlers tend to stretch out and open up too much at first and I seem to fall into this as well.

One area that I found a great advantage was actually in my Judo day. I was expecting to be dropped just as routinely as I was getting choked out, but I found myself even or above many of the others from standing.

In essence - Comfort on the back, and where the head is vulnerable have been my biggest challenges compared with wrestling, and balance, and standing have been my strengths.

I transitioned from a highschool wrestling back ro...

2011-08-16T05:23:31.454-05:00

I transitioned from a highschool wrestling back round straight into jiu jitsu. One of the first things i noticed was that it would almost aggervate people when rolling with me because i did not understand the submissions completely and passing the guard and squezing someones head with a front head lock seemed like a good enough submission for me(I understand now why that was annoying) I appologize for all the wrestlers out there its just what we know to do. Anyways, I was lucky that my instructor forced me to start on my back so that helped me develope a guard and get comfertable on my back quicker. I natulary felt how to escape submissions and scrambled well. The biggest set back for me was, that any time I would get in a tough situation I would resort to my wrestling rather than using my jiu jitsu all in all though I really enjoy jiu jitsu, and from coming wrestling into it was awesome because a whole new world of grappaling opened up to me. well hope this helped everyone see into a wrestlers perspective a little bit.

-good luck to everyone

Sorry to confuse, the classes I'm taking are t...

2011-02-12T00:16:16.014-06:00

Sorry to confuse, the classes I'm taking are teaching judo/bjj. I'm there to learn.

As far as learning the technique, I am a person who pays very close attention to detail and applies technique as if I was taking IQ test, remember, I also coached folkstyle, freestyle, and greco-roman. My point is, that when I'm doing the move the first few times, I get the motion, but after that, I am going a much faster and intense pace to take it off paper and to apply it. It has now been my third day and now I just roll with the brown/black belts. I see the are humble at the fact they can't get a sub within a mile of me, I am also humble to the fact that I can't get a sub a mile close to them. They slow me down, and explain to me particular technique and the we go back to grappling where I try to apply it.

So far, I see that things are changing in my favor, they are stepping it up and are now inquiring of me to come more as they appreciate my technique and intensity. They are preparing someone for an mma fight and asked me to work some wrestling with him. I'm honored and I look forward to learning from judo and jj. Peace

Aaron, There are several reasons to go slow in jiu...

2011-02-10T23:05:25.317-06:00

Aaron,
There are several reasons to go slow in jiu-jitsu.
First, the plethora of jiu-jitsu techniques is much richer than that of wrestling. I wrestled in my youth and won 2 regional championships. (I guess I'm trying to say: I know where you're coming from). While wrestlers pick up JJ very quickly due to their ground experience, that's about it.
Its like comparing the need for speed in a sprint vs the need to slow down and pace yourself in a strategic chess game.
Second, the ability to apply techniques has nothing to do with strength and intensity. Yes, i'm sure you're mauling newer students. but if you train with someone who has years of experience, i'll bet they would use just as much energy against someone with no ground game experience as they would against you, an accomplished wrestler. I'm not kidding. I've been out of the game for a while, but I was shocked how patient, slow attention to detail enabled me to submit college wrestlers who were coming in to try it out.
The difference can be compared to a calculating snake who waits for the opportunity to attack and realizes its a chess game as opposed to an aggressive grizzly bear who insists on force and eventually wears itself out.
I'm not putting wrestling down. It greatly enhances one's background and skills in preparation for the complexity of jiu-jitsu; but the number of techniques in JJ are on a completely different domain compared to wrestling.
Now, the argument often becomes: wrestlers do great in MMA and avoid getting submitted!!! well, they got that way by training submissions for years and years. otherwise, they're going to end up like Brock Lesnar did in his first fight against Frank Mir.
hope this helps. i find it strange that you're "teaching BJJ" yet seem rather new at some of its concepts. side control is a very important position. but like all "positions" in jiu-jitsu, its merely a means to an ends. guard and mount are just as important as side control.
Jiu Jitsu is about careful calculation and capitalization on mistakes by one's opponent, not about brutal aggression for the sake of overhwhelming the other person.
Finally, i have a few years experience (and miss training very dearly!), and I can tell you that we train 50% in the pursuit of perfection; and achieving perfection has to do with the patient attention to detail. We have our "open mat" times for intense competition. but going 100% does nothing to the sake of perfecting technique, at least when it comes to jiu-jitsu.
i want to elaborate on this a bit. indulge me. when i trained 2 years ago i outweighed most of the guys i trained with by at least 100 lbs. i'm a big ogre. i learned early on that the 150 lb. guy with experience will tap me if i don't pay attention to detail by slowing down.
so, for the years i've spent training, i could have very easily had the attitude "i'm bigger, stronger, more experienced . . . my size and strength will teach the other guys a lesson and make them tougher for the real situation! i better go all out!"
but i didn't do that. it doesn't work in jiu jitsu! so, i spent a year and a half forcing guys to work in my guard in open mat. at first it was rough, but i got to the point where i was even getting triangles from guard with my tree trunk legs
the fruits for patient attention to detail would have been wasted had i chosen to just focus on my talents: size and strength (or aggression, etc . . .)
jiu jitsu is an art. and art takes patience. technique takes patience and attention to detail. we can't do that when we're going 100 mph all the time. the same with submission defense and position control. its a slow, and even painful process because you soon learn that, 'while i'm athletic, i know nothing about how to defend myself outside the confines of wrestling rules.'
your perspective will change with more experience.
Best to you in your continued training!

Hi, I've been a wrestler for 8 years doing co...

2011-02-10T16:33:01.694-06:00

Hi,

I've been a wrestler for 8 years doing collegiate, freestyle, and greco-roman. I even coached for several years at the high school I graduated from. For the past 3 years I haven't done anything to stay in shape. I have recently decided to start taking a class teaching judo/bjj. So far it reminds me of a 50% relaxed atmosphere than what I was used to training at. I'm okay with this because I just want a place to maintain my health and do something I like; rolling on the mats.
I'm constantly told to relax, and not to do things so hard. To me this is a shock. I think to myself, how will I ever learn how to really do it against a struggling opponent if I practice it weak? Please don't mistake me for attacking judo/bjj, I understand these people are very accomplished and deserve respect. I'm merely giving you the perspective you asked for. I believe that my varied and intense wrestling background has put me on a level with the higher degree members I'm training with because I have always practiced at 100% and have hundreds of real matches struggling with another human that I understand several maneuvers ahead of my opponent even if I don't know their particular technique. I also dislike being on back, which I will try and get comfortable with. In all of the free-form matches at my judo/bjj class I will initiate the take-down and end in a side-mount in what I believe is a dominant position while I try submissions I don't know yet and defending against attempts of submissions on me. But most of the time it is me dominating control. I see in judo/bjj that the members have a high respect for each other and that is why they go 50%, they care not hurt each other. I can respect that especially when most of the moves are to break limbs, but understand that a wrestler's respect works differently. You go 100% all the time so that your partner learns how to do it in competition.

For me, this transition will be a test of patience, and unlearning some of the useless wrestling techniques. For the most part, I feel very comfortable with judo/bjj, because to me it is another form of wrestling, as I believe wrestling is a general term.

I hope to one day compete in judo, as I loved freestyle and greco for the throws!

Thanks for this article. I agree with your opinion about core strength and I hope that the going 100% will answer about how this core strength is developed.

peace

In another post Conan talked about how people move...

2008-11-03T23:54:00.000-06:00

In another post Conan talked about how people move through jiu jitsu. They start out new and then hit a big learning curve then plateau then move past it. One thing I thought of when reading Andy's post...(thinking about the way a learning curve works )I think when wrestler starts out they start out higher then someone starting from scratch. After they realize they can't use their strength and some of the techniques used in wrestling I think it is harder to get past that first plateau. Personally, I think I picked up the moves really fast, but I feel like I have been stuck over the past couple months and haven't improved like I did the first couple months. I learned the basic moves really fast, but the small things that make a good jiu jitsu figher has been tough. I think that is another disadvantage for wrestlers.

It's good to hear Ryan's and Andy's perspectives o...

2008-11-03T23:17:00.000-06:00

It's good to hear Ryan's and Andy's perspectives on this subject so that I can better understand from a teaching perspective.

I couldn't help but feel compelled to respond to Andy's comment about, "...minimal success so far." I realize you're being humble, but also know we're always most critical of ourselves. Where you may see minimal success, I see vast improvement. True statement.

I do have a wrestlers background but it's been so ...

2008-11-03T22:47:00.000-06:00

I do have a wrestlers background but it's been so long, I'm not sure how much it has helped with my jujitsu training. I think having a wrestlers background can help accelerate the inevitable learning curve in the first few months of jujitsu, since most wrestlers are good with their body control and basic body mechanics. Once I got in shape I found myself hanging with much more experienced jits guys, and my wrestling background undoubtedly helped me do this. To this day, I have good wrist control and understand my body mechanics very well. Sort of along the same lines, I was just asked a few weeks ago if I thought my height and strength helped me out more than the average guy. In some ways yes but it's by no means a golden ticket to success in this sport.

The down side is that we tend to use our strength to much as the article suggests. To this day, I also secretly hate being on my back. I sometimes just "hang out" there and just go with the flow to better acclimate myself to this still foreign position. Jujitsu still comes down to the tiny details that wrestlers don't often have. The learning curve is just as steep in the long run but the beginning it just a little smoother in my opinion. Almost to a fault, I try to be non aggressive and not use my strength to better gain the necessary small details of a submission or sweep. Conan has told me that I am sometimes less explosive than other times and that is when I am trying to concentrate on my form over power. As it stands now, this is the only way I can make it work some days. I also struggle with simple sweeps or ideas in regards to Jujitsu because I still approach things from a wrestling mindset. I struggle more than some realize with even the easy stuff because I am constantly translating the information mentally. This is the most mentally challenging sport I have been a part of because it's so demanding and full of necessary details.

Let's face it, this sport is brutally tough and anyone worth a damn in it has paid their dues regardless of their background. I spend a lot of time learning things on my own and later applying them in class. Conan is a great teacher but I think we are each responsible for our own success or failures. Although I feel my wrestling background has been a definite positive in my transition to jujitsu, my quest to work hard and learn this sport has been tantamount to my minimal success so far.

Andy

Ha well I saw this post and was very interested. I...

2008-11-03T17:52:00.000-06:00

Ha well I saw this post and was very interested. I love it, very interesting and made me think about all of it. I agree with everything you said to. I agree 100% about the strength part. Wrestlers tend to have a really weird strength. They don't look very big, but are really strong. I think a lot of it is because so much wrestling has to do with core strength...same with jiu jitsu. I think that also has to do with balance. One big advantage wrestlers have is stand up. As a wrestler I don't focus on take downs as much as because I have been doing it for 10 years. I still try to pick up different take downs, that's one reason I go to judo, so I can expand on what i know. Plus throwing someone is sweet. There are a lot of things we do in warm ups and stuff that I have been doing for a long time too. Sit outs, sprawls, all that stuff is second nature to me now because I have been doing it for so long. You hit the disadvantages right on the head. The first month or so when I was on my back I started to panic and tried getting away, which made it easier for my opponent to get side mount or even mount. Another thing I tend to do incorrect is positioning. Conan has told me many times to under hook the head (when I am in side control) I over hook it like a half nelson. I have worked on that, but tend to still do it incorrectly. Unlearning what I have already learned is tough too. I have to really focus on some of the stuff taught because it is backwards from what I know. That is probably the toughest part. It was kind of funny, the other day I was wrestling with one of our guys and he was taking me down and I pulled guard instead of turning to my stomach.

Ryan

I'm also interested in what the wrestlers have to ...

2008-11-03T15:39:00.000-06:00

I'm also interested in what the wrestlers have to say. Since I was brought up strictly with a Jiu-Jitsu background, I only have my non-scientific observations.

I enjoyed the "creative" style of your writing. For some reason I feel a little bit better about myself when the smarties get stumped. :)