I know that take downs and control are a part of Jiu-Jitsu, but the point system has turned the art into a game. This particular fighter knew how to play the point game very well, and he won because of that, but does that make him a good Jiu-Jitsu player? Is he even capable of submitting someone? We don't know, because he never tried. Jiu-Jitsu is ultimately supposed to be about submission. The Jiu-Jitsu you see in MMA is a better example of what it should be than much of what you see in straight Jiu-Jitsu tournaments. There is an incentive to TRY to submit in MMA, while sport Jiu-Jitsu actually encourages people to play it safe so that their opponent can't score on them.
I've said it before and I will say it again...I would rather lose by submission than win by points. At least then I know I was doing Jiu-Jitsu.
“The Jiu-Jitsu that I created was designed to give the weak ones a chance to face the heavy and strong. It was so successful that they decided to create a sportive version of it. I would like to make it clear that of course I am in favor of the sportive practice and technical refinement of all athletes, whatever their specialty may be, as well as good nutrition, sexual control, avoidance of addictions and unhealthy habits. The problem lies in the creation of a sport-oriented Jiu-Jitsu, based on rules and time limits, which benefits the heavier, stronger, and more athletic individuals. The primary objective of Jiu-Jitsu is to empower the weak who, for not having the physical attributes, are often intimidated. My Jiu-Jitsu is an art of self-defense in which rules and time limits are unacceptable. These are the reasons for which I can’t support events that reflect an anti Jiu-Jitsu.”-Grand Master Helio Gracie (October 1, 1913 – January 29, 2009)
(Authors Note: To alleviate any confusion as to where I stand on this, I would like to add that I am NOT against sport Jiu-Jitsu as a whole. I am a competitor, and I understand the value of it. What I dislike about the point system is that it can lead to strategies such as the one described above, which in no way would be a viable self-defense option. When a sport drifts so far from the martial art from which it was derived, I believe it loses some of it's integrity. Look at point sparring in karate competitions, does that even resemble what we actually train? No it doesn't, it's a game...but I do like games, they are fun to play ;)
Gina Ethridge
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11 comments:
i agree that the "art" in martial arts seems to be missing from these events. it irritates me when I see fighters call themselves martial artists because the know a couple of moves from different fighting styles. There is a way of carrying yourself and treating others that(in my opinion) makes you a martial artist.
I think they should call themselves "Martial Athletes".
As I was reading this, I was thinking you were comparing apples to oranges. Self defense Jiu-Jitsu and sport Jiu-Jitsu are two different things. Just as the art of Karate Vs the sport of Karate. Point sparring has little to do with actual combat.
Although rules differ from tournament to tournament, I think I can safely say that what you're referring to in the videos is also frowned upon in competition. IBJJF does not allow the accumulation of points by taking the opponent down, letting them up and then re-taking them down. Disengaging from the fight can also bring that fighter a penalty. If a competitor is "getting away" with that sort of strategy, that is wrong. The sport is not intended to reward that type of strategy.
Don't let the few bad apples spoil the entire concept of competition.
We are probably one of the few schools that does not solely focus on competition. However, the greater BJJ community does. A post like this, without a little more explanation, could potentially alienate an entire population of folks who only know the sport side of Jiu-Jitsu.
I for one believe there is true validity to competition. After all, we can't test our skills on the street with random, unsuspecting citizens. The only legal venue we have is a controlled tournament, with rules and a point system.
I spent last weekend watching the Pan Jiu-Jitsu Championship. This is a top level, professionally run competition. I did not see one bout where the type of shenanigans you referred to happened.
Well apparently I was writing my addendum at the same time you were writing this...and I hope that might explain things better for you. We even said the same thing about karate :)
"The sport is not intended to reward that type of strategy"... my complaint was that it did...but you are right that is the exception, not the rule.
Otherwise, I actually agree with everything you said. I've just been trying to start an argument with you for two years, and I finally succeeded...yay me!
I realized that my concerns on this are probably a reflection of listening to Shihan talk about Judo. Because he's been involved with it for over fifty-five years, he has seen it's evolution. His issue is with how far the sport aspect has moved away from it's martial beginning, and that you are hard-pressed to even find a school that teaches it as a martial art anymore, they are mostly sport-oriented now. Every time something is forbidden in competition, it is removed from the curriculum, and most of the Judo practiced today is a far cry from what Shihan was taught. He laments the consumption of the art by the sport.
I don't want the same thing to happen to Jiu-Jitsu. Fifty-five years from now I want there to still be schools that teach it as self-defense, and I want the sport version of it to still closely resemble the original art. I have absolutely nothing against sport Jiu-Jitsu as a game, I just don't want it to eventually become some watered down version of what we now practice, where submissions are no longer used.
Well, that was easy. I was looking for a knock down, drag out fight with you where I take you down and pin you and win the debate on points.
You have some valid points about the sport as a whole.
Well I'm glad I scored some points in the debate, but I would still rather submit you, just like you do to me every time we roll. However, in both cases, I just let you win :p
I like posting controversial things around April Fools Day, it's fun! Last year I tried to make people mad by posting How to Learn Jiu-Jitsu by Yourself. Maybe next year I will talk about how Japanese Jiu-Jitsu is obviously far superior to BJJ. JK!
i hate that they have taken out a lot of judo throws from the tournaments. in turn, we don't usually train them in class. i want to grab the pant legs of my opponent and try to kick out their other leg. it's frustrating.
I disagree,
I have very good judo and takedowns.
IF your training BJJ you should be able to defend / counter throw soemone and not let them take you down repeatedly.
If this is happening to you then you need to work on the takedown part of your game.
staying on your feet is the best form of self defense...
Good point, Chris.
Personally, I think the best form of self defense is a 9mm Glock.
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